Curse

Yamat · Aug 23, 2005, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Soooo many people on this thread need to go read an economics book, page 1, where it has the supply/demand curve.

Oversupply is always, ALWAYS good for the consumer. Period. The availability or overabundance of gold does not cause prices to go up on now not-so-rare items; it's the equivalent of the "Buy It Now" button on EBay. You want it right now, you pay more for it.

cookiehoarder · Aug 23, 2005, 07:42 PM // 19:42

I don't even see why people farm UW. Halls is much better money if you actually get a decent team. Money is so useless in this game. Faction IMO is one of the best updates they have put in this game, and because of it I have no further use of money.

Anyway on topic. I have never had a problem with 105/55 monks, mainly because I never play PvE. In PvP they suck as well. I just throw a shatter enchant at them. If they ended up nerfing them I wouldn't care, they have never effected me.

Weezer_Blue · Aug 23, 2005, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Yes... Not that I play often now. I run a 105 build, but not often (I hate PvE entirely). Of course, my monk will probably go on strike, though.

Helltyrant · Aug 23, 2005, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Once again at Fuzzybowdozer:

ummm... y do u call them invicimonks? they r crap against anything but melee u throw in anything that has strip enchantments (necro or mesmer) and u watch, those monks will drop like flies.

once again u only insult the monks who like farming without giving any argument that they should be nerfed other than saying they r greedy.

And monks have a right to whine if devs nerf this aspect, what do u think u r doing when ur complaining that monks can farm. There r so many builds out there that can farm, any decent w/mo, ranger trapper can do it as well,

U have nothing constructive to say other than u don't like monks becuz they work hard for that money while ur too lazy to make one urself.

Jade · Aug 23, 2005, 07:46 PM // 19:46

I will definately keep playing. It'd give me a chance to try out new and different builds. But to be honest about the monk build, it's not invincable. Not by a long shot. Your timing has to be superb or you're dog meat. Then there's those wonderful creatures that have the remove enchantment skills.

Never even minding the scarier critters who can lay a dirty ass whooping on any class and eat protective bond for breakfast. But if they do nerf it, someone will just figure out another class combo that'll have people bitching and moaing all over again anyways.

*cough* Wa/Mo *cough*

But quit the best game that I have played since, well, ever? Forget about it. Guild wars combines all the things about various other rpg-type games and combines them into one neat package. Not to mention the eye popping graphics, every time I play I notice something different.

fuzzybulldozer · Aug 23, 2005, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

1) that doesn't even make sense. Your first argument is that the solo build allows the monks to bring items into the game and sell them for less. Which benefits everyone, absolutely a good thing for the economy. I can sell you a 10/10 sundering bow string for 5 plat because I can go get 5 more fairly easily. You know have a bow string, that 2 weeks ago would have cost you 100plat from anyone else, for 5 plat. My lack of intelligence makes it hard to determine how this is a bad thing for the economy.

2) The second part of your first argument is that we undersell items to move them quickly making it hard for you to gorge the hell out of people to make gold. So nobody will buy your sudnering 10/10 string for 100 plat because I'm selling them for 5 plat...sounds to me a lot like jealousy.

3) Your second argument is that we then go and overbid on "perfect" upgrades...this is completely refuted by the fact that over the past few weeks the monk solo build has deflated the prices on pretty much everything (with the help of arenaNet resetting the prices of runes and the such)...prices for items are at an all time low....

4) the side effect of your second argument is that you can now get a +14% upgrade(which if you do the math is almost no different than the perfect 15%) for far cheaper than you could have before. If you'd take your eyes off "perfect" and place them more clearly on what the upgrades actually do you'd see that there is very little to no difference between 10% and 15% for most upgrades. You now get your 14% upgrade for a fraction of what you would have spent on that item a few weeks ago.

your argument breaks down to "I don't have a monk running the 105/55 build and I'm bitter as hell about it"

1. That is patently ridiculous. you and I both know that you don't sell 10/10 sunderings for 5k. you sell them for the same outrageous prices everyone else does. its a money exchange that spans only the rich, and poor people cant afford to break into it.

2. You undersell less than perfect items. so, true, i can get a 14% more easily. but i want perfection, and i dont want to exploit a skill that is clearly not being used as intended. the fact is, you have inflated the price of perfect items, because you can sell that 10/10 bow string to another 105 for 100 plat, and he won't give it a second thought. if I were to try to break into that trade, i would have to spend literally all of my cash

3. Oh please. when you have 1 mil in cash sitting in the bank, and someone like me comes up to bid 100k on some perfect item you desire, dont tell me you wont bid 150 just to make sure i stay down.

4. we all understand that there is very little difference. some people want perfect items, that's a fact. but more importantly, your mention of this clearly suggests that you know you raise the price of perfect items. you attempt to justify this by stating that "nearly perfect items are almost identical to perfect items". thank you for proving my point.

and that little bitter comment is just useless. it doesnt really matter to me, as your build will be gone in a few days

Jaythen Tyradel · Aug 23, 2005, 08:02 PM // 20:02

It doesnt effect me so I am not going to complain about anothers legitamate tactics that the game is providing. Is it unfair to others? Most likely can be seen that way. The build benefits an individual, and how he plays. Yes, adding 1000 of the same build may affect others ability to find someone with a different play style.
A solution, only a possible but not entirely viable one, is to offer new skills and retweaking of abilities that allow either:
1. ANY charachter can solo UW/FOW if they so chose.
2. Rework group dynamics so that if A+B=C, more people will group with A and B to get a party (C) that works as an invincible group. More than one dynamic setup would be needed though its not the group is looking for the same (read: copycat) builds to rely on. Not just as a primary profession, (grab monk for healing and warrior for meatshield), but more of a skill matchup between players.

Koroh · Aug 23, 2005, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Flooding the market with items will devalue those items, but the increased capital created by farming means the farmer has more cash to spend on non-farmable items. This is the inflation people are complaining about. They are not arguing that some items have decreased in cost, just that certain items are now firmly unattainable by everyone but farmers.

Consider this simple analogy: Previously they could buy any rare item for 10k. Now they can buy most at 5k, but two of those rare items are valued at over 100k. If there were 10 items the average player wanted to buy, they would have had to spend 100k. Now they can buy 8 of them for 5k each (a savings of 40k!), but they can't afford the remaining two because farmers are buying them for 100k each.

Both sides are right. All farmable items are cheaper, but there is still inflation in some items.

I also think that saying some pro-nerfers are just jealous because they can't get the "cool" items is absolutely correct. Sure they can get the same powered items for less cash, but they want the cool items just like everyone else. Having said that, there is no reason they should be denied these items because they're not using an exploit, especially if they're putting more time and effort into it than you are. Not only are they jealous, but they're justifiably outraged.

There's an old saying that goes "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em". But it takes strong moral fibre to accept sacrifice rather than do something you believe is wrong.

Some of the pro-nerfers might be jealous, but I have a feeling there are lots of them out there who are just unwilling to use someone else's exploit-toon just to get ahead.

Koroh

Algren Cole · Aug 23, 2005, 08:02 PM // 20:02

1) want a 10/10 sundering string for 5 plat? whisper me in game
2) you want 'perfect' items because you want to be seen as 'uber' forget 'perfect' items and realize that the +14% is the SAME as the +15% in most cases. The game rounds to whole numbers. The Difference between 14% and 15% is a fraction...it's going to be truncated anyway.
3) I don't need anything in this game...because I realize that what I have, while it isn't 'perfect', delivers the same outcome as the 'perfect' mods do.
4) you're welcome...I guess.

fuzzybulldozer · Aug 23, 2005, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helltyrant

Once again at Fuzzybowdozer:

ummm... y do u call them invicimonks? they r crap against anything but melee u throw in anything that has strip enchantments (necro or mesmer) and u watch, those monks will drop like flies.

once again u only insult the monks who like farming without giving any argument that they should be nerfed other than saying they r greedy.

And monks have a right to whine if devs nerf this aspect, what do u think u r doing when ur complaining that monks can farm. There r so many builds out there that can farm, any decent w/mo, ranger trapper can do it as well,

U have nothing constructive to say other than u don't like monks becuz they work hard for that money while ur too lazy to make one urself.

it appears that mr intellectual failed the grasp the arguments of my posts. the proof of his confusion is evident in both the content and maturity of his posts

also, i call them invincimonks because i believed that that was the widely accepted name for them. they are obviously not invincible, and it insults my intelligence that some of you would point out such a minor technicality as a widely used name

GreatLich · Aug 23, 2005, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

It's not integer based. Only the HUD shows things in integers. Balthazar's Spirit does not compensate for that -1hp loss per hit completely as it is directly proportional to the amount of damage you are taking. You are still losing energy, it's just at such minute levels that it doesn't show on the bar. Essense bond would probably be more suited to compensate for the energy loss, however, it doesn't increase adrenaline.

Actually, I meant "integer" as in "numbers instead of percentages", i'm sure that the damage one takes isn't represented in the engine by some percentile only to be recalculated on the HUD to show numbers (then again I could be wrong, i'm no programmer). My point (or rather opinion) is that, in a system that uses "real" numbers, you shouldn't have skills that are based off of percentages. It's a matter of consistency, I guess...

Helltyrant · Aug 23, 2005, 08:23 PM // 20:23

@bulldozer: once again, instead of offering a decent viewpoint, u attak posters who disagree with u,

Quote:

this is complete and UTTER bullshit

Oh ur real mature...

so what if I don't have the time to type a formal essay for ur majesty to read?

I couldn't care less, and does that make ur argument any mroe sound?

Thanx for making my point

joe synner · Aug 23, 2005, 08:47 PM // 20:47

They don't need to nerf monks.. just add chant removals to the UW creatures gg

fuzzybulldozer · Aug 23, 2005, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helltyrant

@bulldozer: once again, instead of offering a decent viewpoint, u attak posters who disagree with u,

Oh ur real mature...

so what if I don't have the time to type a formal essay for ur majesty to read?

I couldn't care less, and does that make ur argument any mroe sound?

Thanx for making my point

only person i've attacked is you. because you were attacking me, and saying that i was simply making personal attacks. ill say it again so you can understand: my posts are not personal attacks but well thought out points. the only person i have attacked is you. and the only point you've added to this discussion is that you think i'm dumb. well guess what, the feeling is mutual. ill be ignoring your posts from now on, and i will respond to posters like algren who actually possess the mental faculty to argue a point.

oh, and this "formal essay" took me all of 2 minutes to type. when you are trying to argue, its usually best to be coherent. its really not that hard.

Chev of Hardass · Aug 23, 2005, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Flamefest aside. If they "fix" the 105 build or the UW, then I might go back to the Temple to get a group. I need skill points on my N/Mo in a bad way. Frankly, I think they way that the "end PvE game" no longer requires anything but a single character is screwed.

I may UAS my warrior before I get a chance to play my Necro, or Mesmer in the UW.

As it is I have found a way to farm skill points with my warrior faster than any 105 monk.

I guarantee it.

Ohh, and I told some guild mates. And a good friend or two. But I have warned them, if they squeel, the way will be blocked. So, don't ask me jack ****.

zehly · Aug 23, 2005, 09:10 PM // 21:10

I can only see the most severe OCD players quitting because they nerf the build. Obviously, the developers would feel that there is a balance issue that would need to be addressed, and so the "nerf" is really just part of the flow of the game development. If you leave because the game is growing into a more balanced system, and you are against this because you are exploiting an imbalance in the game, then please, leave, because you haven't the intellectual capacity to deserve playing this game.

Helltyrant · Aug 23, 2005, 09:10 PM // 21:10

then we shall ignore each other and listen to others and their opinions,

once again, I still believe perfect weapons r ridiculous and most pll don't need them. And if u dont' need perfect weapons u don't need all that money, thus leave it to the monks to farm.

AeroLion · Aug 23, 2005, 09:11 PM // 21:11

fuzzybulldozer, no offense but you don't really understand anything about farming. It's readily apparent in your posts. From a farmer's perspective, the more time one spends selling an item, the more money one loses. So a farmer will always sell near-perfect or perfect items below market value simply because, no matter the asking price, the farmer loses money by sitting there trying to sell. For a farmer, it's about selling and then getting back into the field.

This is why you've seen prices across the board from traders plummeting. They offer the farmer an instant outlet to unload their goods, thereby getting back to farming for them, and making prices lower since it seems, from the traders perspective, that the supply is much higher than the demand.

fuzzybulldozer · Aug 23, 2005, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeroLion

fuzzybulldozer, no offense but you don't really understand anything about farming. It's readily apparent in your posts. From a farmer's perspective, the more time one spends selling an item, the more money one loses. So a farmer will always sell near-perfect or perfect items below market value simply because, no matter the asking price, the farmer loses money by sitting there trying to sell. For a farmer, it's about selling and then getting back into the field.

This is why you've seen prices across the board from traders plummeting. They offer the farmer an instant outlet to unload their goods, thereby getting back to farming for them, and making prices lower since it seems, from the traders perspective, that the supply is much higher than the demand.

how do you plan on selling a 15%>50 wingblade, for example, to a trader?

coleslawdressin · Aug 23, 2005, 09:21 PM // 21:21

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